Proving God exists
For a number of conversations that I have happen to find myself in with others, I listen to the agnostic and the atheist express why they do not believe there is a God. I really have no reason to try to convince the otherwise because I know it is not really the heart of the matter.
Rather as I listen to them talk we begin to build a relationship. These folk have someone who is a Christian who is really trying to listen to them and understand where they are coming from. I am not alone in my efforts, may Christians around the world attempt to listen with the heart of Christ to those who do not affirm the reality of a God. I pray that we would all work to become better listeners to one another.
Over the course of the conversation, it became clear that a couple of my new friends were trapped in thinking that God is something or somewhere else. That is to say they are convinced that to believe in God means to affirm the reality that there is another separate "thing" out there somewhere that is totally other than their lived experienced.
Too often my Christian friends try to convince others of this sort of understanding of God. And we all can guess as to how many times it has "worked" to convince people. So instead of trying to convince others there is a God through debate or arguments or logic or theology, might I suggest an alternative.
I have a friend, Sarah, who is blind. Sarah was not born blind but became blind due to an issue with her eyes. As she learned to work with her blindness she told me that for her there is no way to tell if a person is standing in front of her unless that person responds.
Might I submit that there there is no way to tell God exists without a response. If you affirm the reality of God, then we must be the response. God is calling the world to be peaceful and just and without a response then it is impossible to "confirm" that there is ever a call to begin with. If we hope to help this world move toward that "peaceable kingdom" then we must first be the ones who are responding to the call of God.
When we respond then others will see there is something more in our lives that is moving us forward. Without a response, it is difficult to "prove" God exists.
Rather as I listen to them talk we begin to build a relationship. These folk have someone who is a Christian who is really trying to listen to them and understand where they are coming from. I am not alone in my efforts, may Christians around the world attempt to listen with the heart of Christ to those who do not affirm the reality of a God. I pray that we would all work to become better listeners to one another.
Too often my Christian friends try to convince others of this sort of understanding of God. And we all can guess as to how many times it has "worked" to convince people. So instead of trying to convince others there is a God through debate or arguments or logic or theology, might I suggest an alternative.
I have a friend, Sarah, who is blind. Sarah was not born blind but became blind due to an issue with her eyes. As she learned to work with her blindness she told me that for her there is no way to tell if a person is standing in front of her unless that person responds.
Might I submit that there there is no way to tell God exists without a response. If you affirm the reality of God, then we must be the response. God is calling the world to be peaceful and just and without a response then it is impossible to "confirm" that there is ever a call to begin with. If we hope to help this world move toward that "peaceable kingdom" then we must first be the ones who are responding to the call of God.
When we respond then others will see there is something more in our lives that is moving us forward. Without a response, it is difficult to "prove" God exists.
Christianity and beliefs
Rather than replying to the previous comments on the previous post, I just took the time to write a follow up entry.
This part is a bit of a refresher.
For as many generations, Christianity functioned as a religion in which you first believed, then you learned to behave and then you became a Christian (belonged). This three-fold sequence of believing, behaving and belonging is still how much of Christianity functions today. You can find a number of church websites with a link to explain what they believe so you know right away what that "entire" community believes. If you are kosher with the beliefs then you learn to behave in the community. You learn when to worship and when to be in small group you learn what imaged to use for God and what ways to behave among one another. Finally, when you have all that in order you are counted as one who belonged to the community.
Recently the conversation has turned to invert this process. That is to create Christian community is to first create places where people belong, then as a member of the community they we learn to behave together then we get to the stuff about beliefs. This comes from Diana Butler Bass who said that if she were to join a knitting in order to learn to knit, the first thing she would do is walk into that group and belong. The group does not ask her about her thoughts on knitting philosophy, but they teach her how to knit. Finally, after time has passed, she will develop her own thoughts, which have been informed by the community, on what she holds has her beliefs on knitting.
Not only am I advocating that we need to invert the sequence of believe-behave-belong but it has been my experience that when that sequence is inverted that by the time we get to the third phase of "believing", the specifics beliefs/dogma/orthodoxy matter very little. I have friends that I would go through hell and back with because we are that close but when it comes to beliefs we could not be farther apart on a number of issues. I would be willing to be most people have someone in their lives who they belong to but have disagree about beliefs but continue to remain friends. Because the relationship is greater than anything.
If Christianity is a religion that is about relationships, then relationships are what we work at getting "right". Unlike almost every other outlet in our world, Christianity is a movement that says it is more important that we belong to one another as children of God than what we believe. It is vital to the God's vision for the world that we are in relationship with one another, because a person is more important that a set of beliefs.
Richard Rohr's book Falling Upward I think is helpful here. Rohr argues there are two stages in life and:
"when you are young, you define yourself by differentiating yourself; now you look for the things we all share in common. You find happiness in alikeness, which has become much more obvious to you now; and you do not need to dwell on the differences between people or exaggerate the problems."
Rohr goes on to say:
"In the second half of life, we do not have strong and final opinions about everything, every event, or most people, as much as we allow things and people to delight us, sadden us, and truly influence us. We no longer need to change or adjust other people to be happy ourselves. Ironically, we are more than ever before in a position to change people—but we do not need to—and that makes all the difference."
When we discover that Christianity is less about beliefs and more about relationship then we are moving into the second stage of life Rohr writes about. If pressed to express my "beliefs" it would be this: The Biblical witness and the message of God in Christ through the Holy Spirit is clear - God changes the world by establishing relationships built around shared trust rather than shared beliefs. This is the Way of Christ.
This part is a bit of a refresher.
For as many generations, Christianity functioned as a religion in which you first believed, then you learned to behave and then you became a Christian (belonged). This three-fold sequence of believing, behaving and belonging is still how much of Christianity functions today. You can find a number of church websites with a link to explain what they believe so you know right away what that "entire" community believes. If you are kosher with the beliefs then you learn to behave in the community. You learn when to worship and when to be in small group you learn what imaged to use for God and what ways to behave among one another. Finally, when you have all that in order you are counted as one who belonged to the community.
Recently the conversation has turned to invert this process. That is to create Christian community is to first create places where people belong, then as a member of the community they we learn to behave together then we get to the stuff about beliefs. This comes from Diana Butler Bass who said that if she were to join a knitting in order to learn to knit, the first thing she would do is walk into that group and belong. The group does not ask her about her thoughts on knitting philosophy, but they teach her how to knit. Finally, after time has passed, she will develop her own thoughts, which have been informed by the community, on what she holds has her beliefs on knitting.
Not only am I advocating that we need to invert the sequence of believe-behave-belong but it has been my experience that when that sequence is inverted that by the time we get to the third phase of "believing", the specifics beliefs/dogma/orthodoxy matter very little. I have friends that I would go through hell and back with because we are that close but when it comes to beliefs we could not be farther apart on a number of issues. I would be willing to be most people have someone in their lives who they belong to but have disagree about beliefs but continue to remain friends. Because the relationship is greater than anything.
If Christianity is a religion that is about relationships, then relationships are what we work at getting "right". Unlike almost every other outlet in our world, Christianity is a movement that says it is more important that we belong to one another as children of God than what we believe. It is vital to the God's vision for the world that we are in relationship with one another, because a person is more important that a set of beliefs. Richard Rohr's book Falling Upward I think is helpful here. Rohr argues there are two stages in life and:
"when you are young, you define yourself by differentiating yourself; now you look for the things we all share in common. You find happiness in alikeness, which has become much more obvious to you now; and you do not need to dwell on the differences between people or exaggerate the problems."
Rohr goes on to say:
"In the second half of life, we do not have strong and final opinions about everything, every event, or most people, as much as we allow things and people to delight us, sadden us, and truly influence us. We no longer need to change or adjust other people to be happy ourselves. Ironically, we are more than ever before in a position to change people—but we do not need to—and that makes all the difference."
When we discover that Christianity is less about beliefs and more about relationship then we are moving into the second stage of life Rohr writes about. If pressed to express my "beliefs" it would be this: The Biblical witness and the message of God in Christ through the Holy Spirit is clear - God changes the world by establishing relationships built around shared trust rather than shared beliefs. This is the Way of Christ.
You cannot be Christian and...
I saw a sticker which read, "You can't be Catholic and pro-abortion."
First off I am not sure anyone is pro-abortion, even those who advocate for choice are not advocating abortions only the freedom to choose.
That aside, it is curious to me the number of dichotomies that are set up in order to create in and out groups among my Christian brothers and sisters.
If history serves me correctly then there was a time when people thought you could not be Christian and uncircumcised. There was a time when people thought you could not be Christian and embracing of civil rights. There was a time when people thought you could not be Christian and gay. There was a time when people thought you could not be Christian and in the army. There was a time when people thought you could not be Christian and not be a Capitalist. There was a time when people thought you could not be Christian and a whole slew of things.
The fact of the matter is there is always a flux in understanding what it means to be a Christian. There is always a continuum that all Christians fall into. Rest assured that somewhere someone does not think you are a Christian. What is often forgotten is that what makes one a Christian is not beliefs - it never has been about beliefs.
First off I am not sure anyone is pro-abortion, even those who advocate for choice are not advocating abortions only the freedom to choose.
That aside, it is curious to me the number of dichotomies that are set up in order to create in and out groups among my Christian brothers and sisters.
If history serves me correctly then there was a time when people thought you could not be Christian and uncircumcised. There was a time when people thought you could not be Christian and embracing of civil rights. There was a time when people thought you could not be Christian and gay. There was a time when people thought you could not be Christian and in the army. There was a time when people thought you could not be Christian and not be a Capitalist. There was a time when people thought you could not be Christian and a whole slew of things.
The fact of the matter is there is always a flux in understanding what it means to be a Christian. There is always a continuum that all Christians fall into. Rest assured that somewhere someone does not think you are a Christian. What is often forgotten is that what makes one a Christian is not beliefs - it never has been about beliefs.
Be the change by Jason Valendy is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike 3.0 Unported License.